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Waterjet Web Reference Discussion Rules and Guidelines

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Note: If you are unable to send emails to the group, make sure that your emails don't contain any "attachments" such as pictures, signature files, etc.  In order to protect members of the group from viruses, spam, etc., emails with attachments will be automatically discarded.

This page from the Waterjet Web Reference contains:

• Cautions and Warnings
• Rules and Guidelines
• Statement of Biases
• Disclaimer

Cautions and Warnings:

• Beware of "wolves in sheep's clothing."  On the Internet, it is quite easy for anyone to disguise their identity, and pretend to be somebody they are not.  Some unscrupulous people will take advantage of this, especially when you consider the amount of money involved in the equipment being discussed, and the temptation that presents.  Be very wary of any person who does not say who they are, or where they work.  It often occurs that people will get on chat rooms or discussion groups and pretend to be unbiassed helpers or ask seeming innocent questions, when in fact they are feeding you a bunch of crap.

I have reason to believe that this has happened on this discussion group more than once already, and have received emails from 2 reputable companies that believe that they have been the victim of this.

Some red flags to watch for:  

• emails from "free" internet accounts such as yahoo and hot mail.  These accounts are easy to get without having to provide any identifying information.  Therefore, it is easy to be anonymous.  (This does not mean that someone using such an account is a "wolf", in fact it is probably not the case, but it is a red flag.)
• People with strong opinions for or against a particular brand or product without factual information to back it up.
• People with strong opinions for or against a particular brand or product that don't say who they are.
• People who say that their company uses the equipment that they are talking about, but don't say what company they are from, or who they are.
• People who quote sources that don't exist, or "a friend said", etc.
• People who habitually violate the rules outlined below.

I generally am more inclined to trust a posting that comes from a person who:


• Says their name
• Says the company they work for
• Provides other contact information, such as a mailing address, phone number, and or link to their web site.
• Provides factual information
• Quotes real, verifiable sources.

Wolves beware: If it is your intention to be a "wolf", then consider the following:


• Emails are very traceable , and you might be sued.  I personally don't have the finances or desire to do this, but the company or person that you are slandering might.  Emails you post to this group, along with all sorts of routing information, IP addresses, time and location they were sent from, etc., are permanently saved on servers, as well as in a multitude of peoples mail boxes.  Unless you are quite knowledgeable of the Internet, It is nearly impossible to erase the evidence.  (By the way, In case you are wondering, those Internet access points at Airport terminals and shopping malls are very bad places to try to be anonymous.  Not only are they often under time stamped video surveillance, but it's not particularly difficult to trace an email back to the exact kiosk from which the email was composed.  Couple that with a record of airline passengers, etc...  somebody might think it worth the effort, or might simply think it fun, to figure out who you are.  I hope you get the picture.)
• I can see you when you spam to try to promote your company with lies.  I know when user's sign up, and I am privy to more information than casual yahoo-groups members.  It's pretty darn obvious when you post a message, then sign up under another name, then post a reply to your own message so that you can have a fake conversation with yourself about how great your company is.  (Yes, there are people who do this!) You look like an idiot when you do that, and it is in violation of the group rules.
  
  
• Beware of nasty email attachments.  If someone sends you an email, and you don't know who the person is, then don't open any file that is attached.  It could be a virus.  If its an .EXE or .VBS file, be especially suspicious.  Other files such as .DOC, zip, or practically anything can also contain viruses.  When in doubt, don't open it! (This is also why email's with attachments are no longer allowed to go to the group.)
  

• Rule #1: You cannot be an anonymous member of this group, and you must say who you are and who you work for.  This is to protect the other members of this group from "wolves in sheep's clothing".  It is required when posting an email to the group that you:
• Include your real name (First and last)
• Include the name of the company (or school or other affiliation) that you work for.  If you are not affiliated with any company or organization then state "No affiliation with any company")  This lets the reader have at least some hooks to judge if you are a real person, and not a fake trying to spread propoganda.  Granted it is not fool proof, but it's at least a start.
  
• If you prefer not to say who you are, then you may not post, and your postings will be rejected without going to other group members.
  
• Rule #2: Don't be afraid to ask a stupid question , chances are that I was too embarrassed to ask your question myself.  Thank you for saving me the embarrassment!  The purpose of this group is to make experts out of novices.
• Rule #3: Stay in the "spirit of the web site", which is to promote and exchange ideas and information regarding abrasivejet and waterjet technology, with an emphasis on abrasive waterjet cutting and machining. This means that it is NOT here to bash what other people are doing, talk about things that have little or nothing to do with abrasive waterjet cutting and machining, or to promote your personal interests in the disguise of helping others.
• Rule #4: Slander will not be tolerated.  If you have something bad to say about someone else's product or service, then back it up with facts, and say who you are (Name and Company).  If you don't, then others and myself will make it a point to challenge whatever you say, and ask who you are and how it is that you know so much. This discussion group is not for bashing other peoples hard work.  However, open debate on the merits of different equipment is encouraged - just stay on topic, try to be professional, and absolutely do not lie or otherwise purposely be deceptive.
  
• Rule #5: The group is not for "Chit Chat".   If you want to blab about things that have nothing to do with waterjets, then find another group.  There are thousands of groups dedicated to many different subjects.  Go there.  There are hundreds of people (over 1500) who are members of this group, and when you blab, you waste a lot of peoples time.  If you engage in a lot of "chit chat", then your posts will be "moderated", and will not be posted to the group unless they are on-topic.  Before posting anything to the group, ask yourself, "Would this information or question I am about to post be something that belongs in the Waterjet Web Reference?".  If the answer is "no", then don't post it!
• Rule #6: The group is not for the discussion of SUPER-WATER®. If you want to talk about SUPER-WATER®, then join the SUPER-WATER® group.  You can join the SUPER-WATER® group by going here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/super-water/join. 
• Rule #7: Keep in mind that there are a lot of people using this discussion group. Anything you say is akin to standing up in a room full of people, and speaking.  What you write will go into the email box of each person in the group. Compose your message with care and respect.
• Rule #8: When posting a brand new message or question, choose a subject that makes sense.  I.e. don't use the subject of "waterjet", because all topics in this discussion group are already about waterjets.  Likewise, don't use "(no subject)" as your subject either.  Instead choose a subject like "How thick can a waterjet cut?".  This makes the discussion easier to follow, and allows people to browse old messages for information that they are looking for, by simply looking at the subject.  Note: If you are replying to a "daily digest" be sure to re-enter the original subject of the email you are replying to (So your subject is not "Re: Digest #1234")
  
• Rule #9: When sending a personal email to someone on the group, send it to that persons email address directly.  Do not post it to the waterjets e-group unless you believe that it is of benefit to other members of the group.
• Rule #10: When replying to a message that has already been posted, open the message you are replying to, then click on "reply".  Don't simply start a brand new subject, as it makes things hard to follow.  (Of course, if your reply has nothing to do with the original subject, then start a new subject.)
• Rule #11: Use your real name (Name and Company), and don't pretend to be somebody you are not, in order to promote your company's equipment, "bash" your competitors, spread lies, rumors, or misinformation, engage in illegal activity, etc.   Be upfront about who you are.  For added credibility, provide contact information such as your company web site, address, or phone number.
• Rule #12: Advertising - The purpose of this group is not for you to use for advertising.  However, feel free to occasionally use the discussion group for "want adds", or to sell used equipment, services, look for employees or employment, etc.  But do-not over do it by replying to or instigating a large number of messages to blanket the group with your promotional information.  If you are interested in advertising your waterjet related business, visit the waterjet business listings web site.
  
• Rule #13: Remember: What you put on the discussion group will be there for many years.  Be careful of offending anyone , or stating anything that is untrue.  Unlike a normal conversation, what you say sticks!  (In fact, with web archiving, and "digital immortality", it may even stick for thousands of years!)
• Rule #14: Be respectful
• Rule #15: Be constructive
• Rule #16: Be honest
• Rule #17: Be courteous
• Rule #18: No "flaming"
• Rule #19: Try to be positive.
• Rule #20: Obey all laws, and do not promote illegal activities.
• Rule #21: No junk mail!
• Rule #22: Be sure to invite your friends, co-workers, and others to join this e-group.  The more people that join, the more we will all benefit.
• Rule #23: Be patient with those who make social blunders by violating the group rules, or the 10 commandments outlined below.  The internet is a radically new means of social communication, and we are all infants.  We are all trying to adjust to it, and we all have our ideas how it should work.  For many people, this something that is hard to adjust to.  When we communicate via email, we don't have the benefit of facial expressions, gestures, body language, or voice inflections.  A lot of information is lost. Our brains tend to fill in this missing information with our imaginations.  If we had a bad day, then our imaginations fill in the missing information with negative thoughts.  This can be misleading.  Don't assume the worst.  As my 11th grade Science teacher MR. Van Etton used to say, "When you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME.".
• Rule #24: If you post anything to the newsgroup that has absolutely nothing to do with waterjets (I.e. "Spam", etc.) then you will be immediately banned from the group - no questions asked. (See also Rule #28)
• Rule # 25: The use of member's private email addresses for the purpose of sending unwanted emails to one or more group members will get you kicked off of the group, should you get more than one complaint from a member of the group.  Group members who wish to file such a complaint should:
  

  #1 Send an email to the offender stating that they do not wish to receive any further mails from them.  The email should say "See Waterjets Discussion Group Rule #25 at http://www.waterjets.org/wjwr_discussion_guidelines.html", and be sure to send a copy of this email to carlolsen@waterjets.org to be registered as an official complaint.
  #2 Forward the offending offending email(s) to carlolsen@waterjets.org
  #3 If they send a second email to you (other than an apology), forward this on to carlolsen@waterjets.org for verification that they have done so again.  They will then be "banished" from the group for a period of 3 months, after which they can request to be let back in.

  This rule is intended to give the legitimate person a chance to make contact with someone without fear of getting banned, but will also make it harder for someone to abuse the group by sending unwanted emails, "flames", or "spam".  It also takes away any gray areas about the definition of "insult", and simply says that if someone request that you don't send any emails to them, and you do, then you are off of this group. "
• Rule #26: The language of this discussion group is ENGLISH.  If you speak other languages, please translate your question into English before posting to the group.  You may wish to use one of the free Internet tools such as http://www.freetranslation.com or http://www.systranlinks.com/systran/cgi  Then include the English translation along with your original untranslated message.
  
• Rule #27: Note that not everyone in the group speaks English as their first language.  Therefore, try to avoid using "big words", and a lot of technical jargon and such.  Check your spelling also, because this makes it easier for language translation software to give good results.
  
• Rule #28: If you sign up to the group with your settings set to "no email", yet you purposely "spam" the group by posting messages or add links that have nothing to do with waterjets, then as an alternate to Rule 24, you may have your email settings set back to "individual emails" instead of being removed from the group.  This is our way of giving you spam back.
• Rule #29: Don't use this group to deceptively promote your company by having staged conversations.  (For example, don't post a question, or have someone else post a question like "what do you think of XYZ company", then call up your one happy customer and talk them into posting an answer that says, "that company is the best...")   I have very clear evidence of one waterjet manufacturer doing this on at least one occasion.  I am tempted to expose them, but I haven't yet, since they are a competitor of the company that I work for and I don't' want to be accused of exposing them due to a conflict of interest.
  
• Don't violate the guidelines provided by your Yahoo terms of service.  These are posted here.
• Final Rule: If you see anyone violate the above rules, please don't post a "you just violated Rule #XX" to the newsgroup.  We are already all annoyed at whoever violated a rule, and we don't need more useless messages clogging up our mail boxes.  Send a message to me, and I will politely let the person know that you were offended, without having to send spam to the rest of the group.

• Be very careful of what you post to this group!  Once you press "Send", it cannot be taken back!  It will go into every single group members email box, as well as to a web archive.  Your message can be deleted from the archive, but there is no way it can be deleted from everyone's mail box.

• As mentioned previously, all new users posts will be "moderated";  Usually, by at least two different people. Users who violate any of the above rules will probably also be moderated, if it causes a problem.  Additional moderation may be applied to the group on occasion, when "flame wars" erupt.  To date, almost all moderation has been the deletion of viruses and spam, or topics related to "SUPER-WATER®" (There is a completely separate Yahoo Group for SUPER-WATER® discussion, because a lot of people in the [waterjets] group decided that there was too much SUPER-WATER® talk filling their in-boxes.) 
  
• Most members become un-moderated after a while automatically (I think).  However, I have not quite figured out why some user's do, and some don't, and I have not figured out an easy way to just go through the list of members, and remove moderation without individually editing each account, which takes about 2 minutes per person.  Since there are over 1500 members in the group, this is very impractical.  If you want to make sure that your emails are not moderated (which can cause your emails to go to the group immediately), then send me an email, and I'll make sure moderation is removed for you.  (Unless you have caused problems in the past).  Note, however, that having your email moderated can also be a safety net.  I have moderation turned on for myself, for example, to prevent me from accidentally posting a sensitive message to the group (which I did once.)  Moderation helps minimize the chances of this happening.
  

Although I don't like to, I reserve the right remove anything I deem inappropriate.  Hopefully, this will never have to be done.  Also, I will delete any message that violates the discussion group guidelines that I have agreed to in order to use this free service.  These guidelines are posted here . Likewise, anyone who consistently or purposely violates these guidelines will be banned from the group.

Statement of Biases:

Although I (Carl Olsen) am the moderator of the "Waterjets" discussion group, I also am a computer programmer for OMAX, which a major manufacturer of waterjet related equipment (XY Tables, pumps, nozzles, controllers, software, etc.)  It is NOT my intention to use the waterjets group as a means of either promoting OMAX equipment, or anti-promoting the products of OMAX's competitors.  I am not a sales person, nor do I want to be one.  For this reason, I will personally try to avoid discussing things that could be deemed promoting the interests of the company that I work for, even if that sometimes means not replying to some messages to which I think I have useful information to add.  The Waterjet Web Reference, and the "Waterjets" discussion group are NOT part of OMAX or any other company that I might otherwise have relations with.   

I will, however, try my best to provide the fairest possible moderation of the discussion group, and to promote the use of waterjet and abrasivejet technology in a general manner.  It is a technology that I believe in, and I believe that my personal interests in OMAX can best be served by open and honest communication on the subject.  I am also not without my opinions.  For details on my philosophy on this, and other information about the Waterjet Web Reference, click here .

If you want to know what I think about waterjets, then visit my web site, The Waterjet Web Reference .  If you want to know what others think, then join the discussion group .

Thank you,

Carl Olsen
Moderator of [Waterjets] discussion group, and Web Master of the Waterjet Web Reference .

Use the information posted in this newsgroup at your own risk.  I assume no responsibility whatsoever for the accuracy of any information posted to it, or any problems or conflicts that may arise from its use or information it contains.  Sorry.  Moderating this group, and answering questions posted on the group is a hobby.  I can't guarantee that the group won't be abused or corrupted with misinformation and the like.  I wish that I could.

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